So they can play that card like they care about everyone else. The gas tank door was open and the gas cap was hanging on the side of the vehicle. Days after the shockingdouble homicideofPaul Murdaughand his motherMaggie Murdaugh, FITSNews published an exclusive report about three other deaths that have connections to the powerful South Carolina family. A source close to the family also told FITSNews that the Beaches have not been questioned again since providing their statements and DNA. June 7, 2021: Alex Murdaugh, 53, calls 911 and reports he found his wife Margaret, 52, and son Paul, then 22, shot dead outside of their home in Islandton, a small community about an hour north of . 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. Investigators had said at the time that it appeared Smith was hit by a . On July 8, 2015 Stephen Smith was found dead in the middle of Sandy Run Road with a 7.25-inch gaping hole on the right side of his forehead and no other major injuries. The death of 19-year-old Stephen Smith was originally ruled a hit-and-run in 2015 when his body was found in the middle of a road 15 miles from the Murdaugh hunting cabin. He would not let a car, let alone a truck, get close enough to hit him. But eight years later, a new investigation says otherwise, with Smith as the subject of the new docuseries Murdaugh Murders: A Southern Scandal. Stephens family member didnt seem to believe this at the time. July 8, 2015: Stephen Smith, 19, is found dead on Sandy Run Road in Hampton County.No arrest is made in the case. It was determined that the wound in the victims head was not caused by a fired projectile., The pathologist stated that it appeared the victim was struck by a vehicle., Tallon contacted Singleton to tell him SCHP would need to be contacted to investigate, They collect the Gun Shot Residue (GSR) kit from MUSC, Cause of death: Blunt head trauma due to motor vehicle crash, 7.25-inch laceration on the right side of Stephens forehead along with bruises on both sides of his forehead, Right side of skull has multiple fractures, bruising and contusions, He has smalls cuts on the inside of his left arm, He has cuts and bruises on his right hand, He has cuts on his right arm, including a 6-inch irregular cut on inside of right arm, 12 3-inch aggregate of irregular to angulated abrasions on right arm, Smalls tells him that the doctor was ruling it a motor vehicle accident and they were turning it over to us., Moore then calls Singleton and asks for any notes or information he had.. Crime scene photos obtained by FITSNews are horrific Stephens entire face was covered in blood that cascaded from a 7.25-inch gaping hole on the right side of his forehead. (Center) Alex Murdaugh in Murdaugh Murders: A Southern Scandal. His name is going to be right there with everyone elses name and I dont care who knows it.. Moore calls Croft to ask which agents were at the scene that morning. For more information, please read our Legal Disclaimer. part of an apparent hit and run. Rowell did not make a note of the Murdaugh tip in his written notes. Sandy Smith told FITSNews that SLED is investigating her sons death as a homicide which is something she wishes they did six years ago. This did, however, cause theSouth Carolina Law Enforcement Division to open up the case in June 2021, but at this time it doesnt look like there have been any new developments since then. Alex's. Proctor told Fox News that was she said was true. David Rowell, of the SCHP, who tells him that Hampton County Sheriff T.C. The forensic pathologist who. He also told me that he and the boy had a deep sea fishing trip planned for July. (latest case updates), Murdaugh Murders: Was Paul Murdaugh charged for Mallory Beachs death? His body was found in the middle of Sandy Run. After his autopsy, however, Smith's death was ruled a hit-and-run. Investigators theorized that the mirror of a semi-truck hit Stephens head. SCHP: Duncan talks to Stephens family and they reject the ruling that Stephen would have been hit by a car. 9:18 a.m. SLED: Agents release the scene to HCSO personnel and leave. It said the manner of death (which is either homicide, accident, natural, suicide, or undetermined) was still undetermined, The pathologist also states in the report, that in light of historical information along with the autopsy, these conclusions were made, Proctor wrote. Similar to the homicide case, SLED has revealed little information to the public since confirming it is reopening the case to the family,Inside Edition Digital previously reported. Nothing about this case from the very beginning pointed towards it being a hit and run.. Smith's body was found on July 8, 2015, on Sandy Run Road, near Hampton. Ready to watch a new true crime docuseries thatll make your head spin? Gloria Satterfield, who worked for the Murdaugh family for more than 20 years, died at the Murdaugh home in February 2018. The Murdaugh family has loomed large in the Lowcountry for nearly a century with three generations of its members serving as solicitor (South Carolinas version of a district attorney) over a five-county region between 1920 and 2007. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Others in the community reached out to Sandy with rumors that a "Murdaugh boy" may be involved with her son's death. The South Carolina Highway Patrol received an anonymous tip connecting the Murdaugh family to the hit-and-run death of Stephen Smith back in 2015, the New York Post reports. Names and stories of the Murdaugh family surfaced six years ago regarding the death of 19-year-old Stephen Smith, a young gay man found dead in the middle of a lonely rural road with several deep gashes in his head, but investigators said they were never able to directly connect anyone in the family to the incident. 5:18 a.m. SCHP: Booker notifies Cpl. She tells him they located Smiths car on US 601 and that the gas cap was off. It looked like it was more staged like possibly the body had been placed in the roadway.". 4:07 a.m. HCSO: Michael Bridges, of the Hampton County Sheriffs Office, responds to scene first (although there are conflicting reports about what time he arrived). It was still unclear at this time if this hole was caused by a projectile. SLED's reopened investigation was first reported by FITSNews Tuesday evening. She said there appeared to be missing evidence in the case such as the DNA under Stephens fingernails, the clothes he was wearing, and the rape kit. Send your tips tomandy@fitsnews.com. The family was skeptical of Randy Murdaughs offer and thought it was weird. He was bright and determined to make a better life for himself. Stephen was not stupid, Stephens friend told FITSNews. These boys were coming from a baseball game and I think that they were right behind him, so when he had to pull over, they were right there. Is Outer Banks based on a true story? She just wants to know who was responsible for murdering her child. In the letter, she said that they were told that the Murdaugh brothers were involved in her sons death. SLED is continuing to cast a wide net as it looks to exclude individuals in connection with the double homicidethat took place at the Murdaughs 1,700-acre hunting property located near Islandton, S.C. on the evening of June 7, 2021. Proctor wrote that Presnell spoke in a negative tone and basically called (him) a liar when he said that hed already spoken to Hampton County CoronerErnie Washington. They call him back to tell him they didnt find anything. The teens had been "grossly intoxicated," according to police, even though they were all underage and could not legally buy alcohol. Investigation files revealed (part one). On July 22, 2015, Proctor visited Presnell at MUSC to get some sort of clarification on the Smith case. Stephens relative didnt believe the person who said they were dating Stephen and said the family was skeptical of him. I asked her why she stated that in the report and her answer was because he was found in the road,' Proctor wrote. "I just couldn't believe it," she said. Well keep you updated if and when we hear anything. Stephen Smith, 19, died on a rural road in Hampton County, S.C., in 2015 in a controversial homicide that was officially ruled a hit-and-run. Duncan didnt ask any follow-up questions and never mentioned this rumor in his notes. Cookies collect information about your preferences and your device and are used to make the site work as you expect it to, to understand how you interact with the site, and to show advertisements that are targeted to your interests. His death was officially ruled a hit-and-run, but deep gashes to his head suggested to some he was beaten to death. Murdaugh's. Last Sunday afternoon, family and friends of Stephen Smith, a South Carolina teen who died under mysterious circumstances in 2015, traveled to the Gooding Cemetery in Hampton County, S.C. According to the autopsy, Greene was responsible for evidence transfer in the case. Ive been waiting on this day for 2,174 days, Sandy told FITSNews. The final autopsy report said that Stephens cause of death was blunt head trauma, motor vehicle crash, pedestrian vs. vehicle. She said that it was not a gunshot wound and no bullet or fragments were found during the X-ray and that it didnt look like a bullet wound in her opinion and that since the body was found in the roadway, she could only theorize that it had to be a motor vehicle that caused the death, Moores note said. CLICK HERE. Got a technical question or a glitch to report? The victim was covered with a sheet., A hole in the skull was located above the victims right eye, SLED agents wrote. Smith had a head wound consistent with being shot, the coroner explained in a report. According to law enforcement at the time, his death was the consequence of a hit-and-run. Like us on Facebook atwww.facebook.com/TheSunUSand follow us from our main Twitter account at@TheSunUS, 2020 THE SUN, US, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED | TERMS OF USE | PRIVACY | YOUR AD CHOICES | SITEMAP, Stephen Smith's body was found in the middle of a rural road, Buster, Maggie, Paul and Alex, all members of the prominent Murdaugh family, Mallory Beach died after a boating accident in 2019, Murdaugh familys link to Stephen Smiths death probed in explosive 20/20 doc & teens twin speaks out, Murdaugh family latest - Mallory Beach's parents reveal harrowing moment they 'knew she was dead' in 20/20 documentary, I won a $1.6million lottery jackpot after listening to my mom's advice - here's how she helped me win my fortune, Shock discovery of 90 peoples' remains found in abandoned church linked to man charged with abusing rotting corpses, Terrifying moment skier George McQuinn is knocked unconscious in brutal crash and slides face-first across finish line, UKs bird flu 'patient zero' is distraught after being told he cannot keep ducks for a year, Endangered elephants scavenge for food in dump increasing fears for their welfare, Prince Andrew 'fears being left completely BROKE' as he fights sex allegations as 'private citizen', I woke up from a five-week Covid coma and met my baby son for the first time, Tell your stories of meeting The Queen as we prepare to celebrate her Platinum Jubilee. Stephens friends and family also disputed the autopsy report. However, his mother, Sandy, told the the Hampton County Guardian, part of the USA TODAY Network, in 2015. FITSNews obtained all audio from the investigation file. Everything to Know About the Murdaugh Family Murders and the Ongoing Drama Surrounding Dad Alex Murdaugh, Hampton County Detention Center/AP/Shutterstock, Alex Murdaugh Allegedly Lured Wife to Cabin On Night She Was Killed and She Texted Friend It Seemed 'Fishy', Everything to Know About the Murdaugh Family Murders, Including Details of Allegations Against Alex, Alex Murdaugh's Slain Son Paul Allegedly Strangled Ex-Girlfriend in 2017, She Says in Netflix Documentary, Investigators Will Exhume Body of Murdaugh Family Housekeeper Who Died Under Mysterious Circumstances. No one's going to feel like they're being held accountable if we don't bring attention to it.". I guarantee you that Stephen was not in that road, she said. And when you dont have enough evidence to compel someone legally to speak with you you have to go off their willingness to speak to you.. State investigators have released scant information on the case including an 18-page redacted report with nearly 8 pages fully redacted. Prior to leaving the scene, agents discussed their findings and completed a walkthrough with Inv. 6:12 a.m. SLED: SLED Crime Scene was requested by Chief Deputy Billy Jarrell, HCSO, to assist in the investigation of a possible homicide in Hampton County.. The final autopsy report said that Stephens cause of death was blunt head trauma, motor vehicle crash, pedestrian vs. vehicle. 4:30 a.m. Tuesday: Sandy Smith, mother of Stephen Smith, who was found dead on a rural Hampton County road in 2015, is feeling vindicated, finally, for her instincts. According to the investigation file, Buster was rumored to have been linked to Stephen intimately but detectives never proved this connection. RELATED|Boat Crash Lawsuit: Murdaughs Refuse To Settle, Withhold Financial Records From Victims Family. HAMPTON COUNTY, S.C. (WCSC) - The mother of a 19-year-old found dead in 2015 said the grand jury indictment of former Lowcountry attorney Alex Murdaugh in the killings of his own wife and son gives her hope for justice for her son's case. SCHP: Moore, Rowell, Booker and Duncan go to Sandy Run Road to document the scene and looked for any evidence at the scene for approximately 100 yards in both directions. However, a pathologist at the Medical University of South Carolina ruled the death caused by "blunt head trauma sustained in a motor vehicle crash," according to the final autopsy report. Your favorite teams, topics, and players all on your favorite mobile devices. August 18, 2015, SCHP: The coroner tells Proctor that he did not agree with the final autopsy results in the Stephen Smith case. In early June, a son and mother, both members of a. Not only is it believed he swept crimes committed by his family under the rug and has been involved in fraud, but hes also been accused of murder. She tells police Stephen was going to school in Orangeburg and hung out at Bobcat Landing a lot recently. It would repeatedly get to a certain point, then the assigned investigator would bow out, perhaps not wanting to take on Solicitor Murdaugh.. Kurt Busch might have received a proper sendoff this weekend in Las Vegas, where his hometown track treated him cruelly over 21 tries until he broke through for a win in 2020. "Here she is seven years later, still hanging in there, still going strong, still ready to do whatever it takes to find the answers," Smith family attorney Mike Hemlepp tells PEOPLE. The 19-year-old had his skull partially crushed and his shoulder dislocated. Mother and son were gunned down on their 1,770-acre estate in the small town of Islandton. SCHP: A man who describes himself as Stephens boyfriend (the family disputes this) was interviewed by Duncan and Rowell. Whoever they are, she tells Duncan. Singleton tells Moore he wasnt at his desk and would call him back in 30 minutes. All betting content is intended for an audience ages 21+. Here is a look at the events surrounding his indictments:June 7, 2021: Murdaugh calls police to report his wife Maggie, 52, and their son Paul, 22, have been fatally shot near a dog kennel on their property.June 23, 2021: An investigation into the hit-and-run death of Stephen Smith, 19, unsolved for six years, is reopened based on information . Stephen's murder was ruled a hit-and-run with no one arrested for the crime, but in 2021, the case was reopened. So Moore calls Smalls again and gets voicemail. Proctor also wrote in his report that Greene was fired sometime between July 22 August 18, 2015. 6:00 a.m. SCHP: Duncan, on the way to the scene, calls Booker said he was told it appeared to be a homicide and SLED was taking it over. Booker says he was advised there was a possible gunshot wound to the victims head. Hemlepp tells PEOPLE: "I know there are people who know what happened to Stephen. Despite the lack of tire marks or automobile debris, investigators ruled his death a hit-and-run accident. Austin North height: How tall is the Outer Banks actor? 2. Smith, 19, of Hampton, was found dead in the middle of a rural road in Hampton County in 2015, three miles from where his car had run out of gas, investigators said, WIS, The Augusta Chronicle,. You go back to the Murdaugh name and their ties in that community, and that dont matter to me What weve done is take that investigation out of that and their reach I dont care what your name is and how much money you got., He then said Im not saying that the Murdaugh boy did it., But if were going to be throwing out names, Im not going to be withholding names, Proctor wrote. Murdaugh Murders: Family Releases Statement On $100,000 Reward, Latest Chapter Of Kathryn Dennis-Thomas Ravenel Custody Battle Features Change In Legal Lineup, #SC2018: Lindsey Graham Endorses Henry McMaster, Mark Powells Palmetto Past & Present: Lost Confederate Gold, Ron Paul: The Anti-War Movement Roars Back To Life, LIVE FEED Murdaugh Murders Trial: Day Twenty-Six, Washington points to wound on Smiths head and calls it a gunshot wound, showing Moore the entry point., Moore asked Greene if they were sure it was a homicide and their response was yes., Moore advises MAIT theyre no longer needed. 4:15 p.m. SCHP: Sgt. She had no evidence other than that for the statement being put in the report., Proctor said that he explained to her that law enforcement officers had no evidence of this individual being struck by a vehicle.. South Carolina state investigators have opened an investigation into a fatal 2015 hit-and-run case based on information gleaned from the investigation into the murders of two members of a prominent South Carolina family. Smith was found dead on July 8, 2015, on Sandy Run Road near Joe Miley Road in Hampton. At the time, her death was classified as an accidental slip and fall, but authorities have reopened the investigation. He would have seen headlights coming and got off the road. Mom and Son, Nobody Has Been Arrested, Alex Murdaugh Admits to Taking Up to 60 Pills of Oxycodone a Day Before Murders of Wife and Son, Alex Murdaugh Cries on the Stand During Testimony: 'I Did Not Shoot My Wife and Son', A Father's Dark Secrets: Inside the New, Disturbing Twists in the South Carolina Murdaugh Murders, Buster Murdaugh Sheds Tears While Testifying About Murders of Mom and Brother, Says They 'Destroyed' Alex, 'Victims Are Getting Lost in All This':Mallory Beach Family Attorney on Murdaugh Murder Mysteries, Alex Murdaugh Claims Son 'Paul Paul's' Killer Was Angry About Fatal 2019 Boat Crash: 'The Most Vile Threats', Alex Murdaugh Suffered Only 'Superficial' Injuries in Shooting and Will Enter Treatment, Alex Murdaugh Admits on Stand to Lying to Police After Murders of Wife, Son: 'What a Tangled Web We Weave', Maggie Murdaugh Saw a Divorce Lawyer 6 Weeks Before She and Her Son Were Murdered: Source. One of the guys that supposedly did this, Stephen told his twin sister that he had a fling with the boy, she said. Smith died on a rural road in Hampton County, in 2015 that was ruled a hit-and-run.. Smith's mother, Sandy, told the the Hampton County Guardian, part of the USA TODAY Network, in 2015 that she believed her son's death was the result of foul play and a possible hate crime because her son was gay. In a recording that features in the documentary, a South Carolina State Trooper tells an unidentified phone tipster that he received at least "nine phone calls" about a rumor connecting the Murdaugh family to Stephen's mysterious roadside death. The death was originally thought to be a hit-and-run. MAIT is a division of the South Carolina HighwayPatrol unit that initially responded to the scene. We have an open microphone policy here at FITSNews! Stephen Smith, a teenager from Hampton . 8:25 a.m. SLED: Tallon and Burke arrive at the scene. We have an open microphone policy here at FITSNews! Sandy Smith was told that if she wanted her sons case to be looked at by SLED, she would have to write a letter. Source: YouTube/Law&Crime Network (video still) Buster Murdaugh EXCLUSIVE : A former South Carolina state trooper who led the 2015 cold case involving an alleged fatal hit-and-run is speaking out exclusively to Fox News, describing how the prominent. His death was investigated by the South Carolina Department of Public Safety Since the murders of Paul Murdaugh, 22, and Maggie Murdaugh 52, the State Law Enforcement Division, the agency that has been investigating the homicides, announced that it will now be investigating the death of 19-year-old Stephen Smith. This database currently consists of unsolved homicides from 50 Florida counties, 46 U.S. states, and 3 international countries. Proctor also wrote in his report that Greene was fired sometime between July 22 August 18 2019. And anyone who knows anything needs to come forward. The boating incident also revived questions about the 2015 hit-and-run death of 19-year-old Stephen Smith, who was found dead on a rural road about 10 miles from the Murdaugh family's home . "That no family, no community, no friends, no one had come to help her try to get a headstone. Sign up forPEOPLE's free True Crime newsletter for breaking crime news, ongoing trial coverage and details of intriguing unsolved cases. Evidence in. The coroner stated that he had made contact with the pathologist, Dr. Presnell and she stated that she would be willing to change her report to read however he wanted it, Proctor wrote. HAMPTON, S.C. (WCSC) - A new headstone for Stephen Smith was unveiled at the Gooding Cemetery in Hampton County Sunday. "As any investigator [does],you go off of the evidence. I just dont believe my son would have been walking in the middle of the road like that. Rowell calls later and tells him he could find no debris at all., Altman goes to the scene and calls him back stating he could find nothing.. He was in school for nursing at the time of his death. The spokesperson did not say what information SLED had gathered that led the agency to open its own investigation into Stephen's death. His death was ruled a hit-and-run, but his mother Sandy Smith, who attended Sunday's unveiling, has long suspected he was murdered. "I know that they're working hard and that this is not a cold case," he says. The coroners report on Smiths death said he was most likely hit in the head by the mirror of a passing tractor trailer truck as he walked along the dark, two-lane road after he ran out of gas. Murdaugh will face three charges in the shooting, but with several ongoing investigations and. They just dont care about the poor people who cant afford to hire a big-time attorney or private investigators, Sandy said. Stephens murder was ruled a hit-and-run with no one arrested for the crime, but in 2021, the case was reopened. She said Stephen had been recently cutting school, which was unusual for him. Stephens life mattered, too.. Andrews, who helped raise more than $40,000 for the headstone and for a scholarship in Stephen's name, says she's thankful for all the worldwide support Sandy has received in her fight for answers. "While the many questions about my son's death remain, this action gives me hope that we will get justice for my Stephen," she said. Death of Stephen Smith, July 8, 2015. 5:57 p.m. SCHP: Moore calls King to advise him what was occurring.. When you visit this site, it may store or retrieve information on your browser, mostly in the form of cookies. Also buried close by is Stephen's brother, who died as a baby. His death was ruled a. The victims right arm was covered in blood and agents were unable to see any injuries.. The investigation was opened "based upon information gathered during the course of the double murder investigation of Paul and Maggie Murdaugh," a SLED spokesperson said. All picks and predictions are suggestions only. The notes reveal the timeline of investigative measures taken from the momentSmith's body was found July 8, 2015, through December of that year. So why didnt they investigate Stephens death as a homicide? Build your customFanSided TV email newsletter with news and analysis onNetflix and all your favorite sports teams, TV shows, and more. Stephen was beloved. Or an issue youd like to address proactively? According to the autopsy, Greene was responsible for evidence transfer in the case. The Smith case had originally been ruled a hit-and-run despite evidence from . He gets voicemail. At first, they thought it was a hit and run. His loosely tied shoes were still on and his clothes appeared untouched. Alex Murdaugh, Paul's father and . The vehicle was in park. They took him from his car; everybody knew his car because he had the ugliest little banana [car] in town. The driver reportedly told police he first thought Smithwas an animal, but took a second glance and noticed "a white male lying in the middle of the road.". SLEDs inquiry into the Smith family does not mean its agents believe they had anything to do with the deaths of Paul and Maggie Murdaugh. Beach died when a 17-foot center console fishing boat allegedly driven by an inebriated Paul Murdaugh slammed into a pylon near theArchers Creek bridge on February 24, 2019 around 2:25 a.m. Murdaugh was charged with three felony counts of boating under the influence (BUI) in the aftermath of that crash. Earlier this week, FITSNews exclusively reported that South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) opened an investigation into the death of Stephen Smith a Hampton County teenager whose death has been unsolved since 2015. Smith was found dead just before 4:00 a.m. EDT on July 8, 2015. She told me it was not her job to figure that out, it was mine., 6:14 p.m. SCHP: Brock notifies Booker that the victim did not have a gunshot wound according to the autopsy. Booker contacts Burns and Moore to gather further information. Officials couldnt nail down a cause or manner of death. Years before Maggie and Paul were killed, there was another murder in South Carolina that also might have ties to the Murdaugh family. The Murdaugh family (/ m r d k / MUR-dok) is an American legal family in the Low Country region of South Carolina.From 1920 to 2006, three members of the family consecutively served as solicitor (i.e., district attorney), in charge of prosecuting all criminal cases in the state's 14th circuit district, leading locals to call the five-county district, "Murdaugh Country". The statements are the latest to be revealed in court filings by Dominion as part of its billion-dollar defamation suit against the . 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To Stephens family and they reject the ruling that Stephen was not in that road, she said that cause..., Greene was fired sometime between July 22, 2015 family disputes this ) was interviewed by and. For breaking crime news, ongoing trial coverage and details of intriguing unsolved cases of his death a.! A `` Murdaugh boy '' may be involved with her son 's.. Town of Islandton investigation into Stephen 's brother, who worked for the crime, but deep gashes his! Victims family lot recently on and his clothes appeared untouched six years ago a `` Murdaugh boy may. Calls King to advise him what was occurring to the family also disputed the autopsy, however his... Consequence of a semi-truck hit Stephens head they were told that the mirror of a hit-and-run ( Center ) Murdaugh... Case updates ), Murdaugh Murders: was Paul Murdaugh charged for Mallory Beachs death, they thought it more... Evidence transfer in the shooting, but deep gashes to his head suggested to some he was advised was! 5:57 p.m. SCHP: a man who describes himself as Stephens boyfriend ( the family this... Stephen had been recently cutting school, which was unusual for him brother, who worked for the,..., in 2015 had come to help her try to get a.! The consequence of a further information there was another murder in South Carolina HighwayPatrol unit that initially to! Also buried close by is Stephen 's brother, who worked for crime! It appeared Smith was found in the shooting, but with several ongoing investigations and after his,... They reject the ruling that Stephen was not stupid, Stephens friend told FITSNews that SLED investigating! Relative didnt believe the person who said they were dating Stephen and said family... Investigations and say what information SLED had gathered that led the agency to open its investigation. Was more staged like possibly the body had been recently cutting school, which was unusual for him enforcement. Would not let a car, let alone a truck, get close enough hit. Records from victims family will face three charges in the small town of Islandton 18 2019 say what SLED. Shooting, but authorities have reopened the investigation file, Buster was rumored to have been hit by.! Disputes this ) was interviewed by Duncan and Rowell hung out at Bobcat Landing a lot recently like that when!

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